The High School Secret to Org Change
The Change Signal with Katy Milkman
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Katy Milkman on why visualization fails to drive change, how to harness the power of moments, and what the “movable middle” can teach us about transformation.
When you're leading organizational change, you're not just changing structures and processes—you're trying to influence how people behave. In this episode, I talk with Katy Milkman, professor at Wharton and author of "How to Change," about what actually works when you're trying to help people change.
Katy reveals that different people resist change for different reasons—some forget, some lack resources, some find it unpleasant. As change leaders, we need to diagnose the specific barriers before jumping to solutions. She introduces two powerful tools: the "Fresh Start Effect" (timing your change initiatives to moments when people are naturally more open to change) and "premortems" (imagining why your change project failed before you begin).
We dig into how to influence the "movable middle"—those who aren't committed either way. Katy shares fascinating research showing that pointing to growing adoption rates, even from a small base, can create powerful momentum. And she busts one of the most common change myths: that visualizing success helps (it doesn't).
The conversation is packed with practical insights for anyone leading transformation in organizations. We explore how to grant others agency without being paradoxical about it, why resistance to change isn't consistent, and how to avoid our own biases when diagnosing what's getting in the way of change. If you're wrestling with how to make change stick in your organization, this episode offers evidence-based approaches that actually work.
About Katy
Katy Milkman is a professor at The Wharton School, author of "How to Change," and the world's leading expert on behavior change. Her research has transformed how organizations approach change management, revealing that 40% of premature deaths come from changeable daily decisions - a finding that revolutionized her approach to organizational transformation.
Katy's book: How to Change
Katy’s Newsletter: Milkman Delivers
Katy’s Podcast: Choiceology
